Welcome back to the Words of Radiance Reread on Tor.com! Last week, Alice saw Shallan trying to avoid merciless bandits probably. This week, Kaladin finally spars, and gets roundly schooled by superior swordsmen.
This reread will contain spoilers for The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and any other Cosmere book that becomes relevant to the discussion. The index for this reread can be found here, and more Stormlight Archive goodies are indexed here. Click on through to join the discussion.
Chapter 18: Bruises
Point of View: Kaladin
Setting: Lighteyes’ Sparring Grounds
Symbology: Spears, Jezrien
IN WHICH Lopen reports to Kaladin on the promising state of the new recruits; Kaladin turns his nose up at food wrapped in bread, like he doesn’t eat grain made out of rocks; patrol routes and highstorm preparations are refined; Zahel trains Renarin by teaching him to jump off of high things; Kaladin assumes he’s above all this, earning a verbal smackdown from Zahel; a prince jumps off a high thing, then does it again head-first; Kaladin refuses training from a weapons master, gets trained anyway; despite his best efforts, Kaladin keeps getting punched and kicked; Zahel simulates an assassination, Adolin picks a fight with Kaladin, Kaladin gets thrown across the sparring grounds; Stormlight deserts Kaladin at a critical moment, and Adolin gets firmly chewed out.
Quote of the Week:
He cut off as scraping from atop the building announced Renarin Kholin charging and throwing himself off into the air, boots grinding against the stone coping of the roof. He sailed a good ten or twelve feet out over the courtyard—practiced Shardbearers could do far better—before floundering and crashing down into the sand.
Before getting into the heart of the chapter, I just wanted to point out that Brandon Sanderson snuck a Wile E. Coyote-style running-on-air bit into his serious business epic fantasy novel. Floundering is an integral step to actually falling, gentle readers, for if one does not flounder one cannot fall. Mneep mneep.
Commentary: Chapter 18 begins with Lopen reporting that the “new guys are coming along,” giving an update on the status of their training, and how they’re adapting to the most important first step of wearing clothes that make them proud and talking like people who believe they have value. That’s no accident; it underscores how much of a jerk Kaladin is to Renarin later in the chapter. Renarin is wearing armor that he doesn’t feel like he deserves, trying to learn how to move in it, trying to be the proper lighteyes that no one thought he could become. Like the men Kaladin took under his wing, he’s weak and beaten down, and he thinks he’s worthless because of the circumstances of his birth. At this point in the text, I don’t believe we’re supposed to realize how cruel and unfair Kaladin is being, because I think we’re still supposed to buy in to the fullest extent of his justified prejudice against lighteyes, but the signs are there to see how much he’s blinding himself if you care to look.
Kaladin probably thinks Renarin is a spoiled lighteyes with a Plate and Blade who’s only tolerated because of favoritism. And, you know, he’s kind of right. Dalinar wants to protect Alethkar, all of it, but he wants to protect his family and loved ones first. If this is a sin, though, it’s one Kaladin is just as guilty of. Kaladin’s whole paradigm requires finding a few people to shelter, to hang onto with all his might, and he selects those people for their weakness.
I guess what I’m saying is that Renarin is his type. It makes perfect sense that he ends up in Bridge Four.
Adolin serves Kaladin plenty of disrespect, but you know how people who mistreat Renarin look to Adolin. At this point the older Kholin boy has a mountain of reasons to look at Kaladin askance. He suspects him of some kind of hidden powers, resents his position outside the command structure, and now sees that he considers baby brother a waste of Shards. It is ON. I’m glad Zahel dressed him down, but I’m not sorry Adolin threw Kaladin across the training grounds. The little jerk had it coming.
The last thing I’ll say is that we can see Kaladin stretched thin in his plans for the patrol routes. He can’t patrol too far from the camps because he’s worried that he’ll be too distant from Dalinar, unable to protect him. Nearby patrols are going to do approximately nothing. Kaladin can’t project power outside the camp, so he can’t tame the slave trade or the bandits. Kaladin can’t find the Highstorm Numbers Bandit, so he can’t be confident in his task of protecting Dalinar. What CAN Kaladin do? Not appreciate chouta, that’s for damnation sure.
Ars Arcanum: We are first given cause to suspect that Kaladin might lose his powers in this chapter when his held Stormlight flees him. Syl tries to point him in the right direction, asking who he was trying to protect, but Kaladin can’t answer to her satisfaction. That’s not good enough, Sonny Jim. If you want to Radiant you have to do it right.
Ars Mechanica: The sparring grounds rely on ancient metal artifacts that, when placed along the edge of a Shardblade, dull them. This is useful, as it is hard to keep sparring after all your arms and legs become useless. I’m not certain this shouldn’t be in the Ars Arcanum instead, since it’s as likely to be magic as technological, but I guess that’s kind of a given in these sections.
It Takes a Lot to Make Tallew: NEW MODULE TIME, GENTLE FRIENDS! Name subject to change if or when I come up with something better that isn’t just a reference to “Too Many Cooks.” In the meantime, let’s talk chouta:
“It looked like a thick piece of flatbread wrapped around something goopy…chunks of undefinable meat slathered in some dark liquid, all wrapped in overly thick bread.”
Okay, I’m a vegetarian, so I wouldn’t personally eat chouta, but it’s the kind of food that I would be all over in vegetarian form. Chouta sounds like some kind of soupy shawarma wrap, or something, and that is a mouthwatering idea. I guess that Alethi culture is pre-sandwich, though, because Kaladin turns his nose up like a petulant child demanding a less interesting meal. No, Kaladin can’t catch a break from me this week. He’ll catch a break when he earns one.
Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before?: Zahel is still older than he seems and still uses strange and unknown idioms. “Repeating myself makes me eat the wrong flower” sure doesn’t sound like a Rosharan saying. I’m not even convinced that Roshar has flowers.
Heraldic Symbolism: Jezrien judges you, Kaladin, and finds you wanting.
Shipping Wars: So yeah, Renarin is totally Kaladin’s type, and the passionate rivalry hatred between Kaladin and Adolin burns hot and bright. I haven’t checked, but these three would be perfect fodder for a hurt/comfort fic. Don’t judge me.
Next week, Alice will delve into Shallan’s distant past, a dark and gloomy place, a place without Kaladin or chouta or even maybe chowder.
Carl Engle-Laird is an editorial assistant at Tor.com, where he acquires and edits original fiction. You can follow him on Twitter here.
It’s getting near lunchtime. Wish I had me some Chouta (but I’ll pass on the cremling claws- I’ll stick with the “meaty meat”….as a non-vegetarian, I’m with The Lopen on loving my meat “meaty”). I agree, I’m always picturing some sort of Shawarma when BWS described Chouta. Yum… I do have a decent shawarma and falafel place nearby…. :-)
Also, I’m pretty sure it’s SYL who asks Kal who he’s trying to protect, NOT Shallan, who’s still blundering around with mercenaries and slavers.
I don’t think Kaladin’s that big of a jerk here. Yes, he judges Renarin unfairly, but that’s a great storytelling tool. The near miss between characters that might have been friends under different circumstances is wonderful for building drama.
Kaladin has had neither cause nor opportunity to get to know Renarin as an individual. That will change. But for now, I can forgive him for assuming the boy is just another scion of a lighteyed family. It’s taking Kaladin a long time to learn with Dalinar, and that’s a man with whom he has regular contact. Dalinar also breaks the stereotype more obviously.
This chapter also shows just how difficult it is for anyone to live up to a set of ideals. We’re not all perfectly dedicated to living them at every moment. Our backgrounds and prejudices creep in. But the ideals give us something to return to, something to strive for. If the Nahel bond is purposely sought with broken people, this struggle seems a defining factor in Radianthood.
It seems to me that cremling claws need drawn butter and a grilled hotdog roll. Alas for the lack of butter in Roshar (maybe the Shin have it?).
Mmmm… Chouta. I always get a mental image of teriyaki beef wrapped in a tortilla -or the Japanese version thereof, but not the super-thin rice pancakes you get at the Mongolian place… Okay, now that I try to describe it, it sounds rather like Mongolian beef in a wrapper! Mmmmmm. (Now I wish King Wha wasn’t so far away… an hour+ each way is a bit much for lunch, even if I didn’t have to stay home with a sick kid. But nobody makes a better Mongolian beef than King Wha.)
Okay, back to Roshar. Kaladin and the big old chip on his shoulder. Oy. I agree – much as I like and root for Kaladin, I was happy to see someone knock that chip off in a BIG way. He deserved every last bit of comeuppance he got in this chapter, including the part where his Stormlight deserts him because he’s trying to use it to be a jerk, rather than to protect. Jerk.
And while Adolin is rather snotty, and I want to punch him everytime he says, “Bridgeboy,” I have to agree that Kaladin had it coming when Adolin tossed him across the sparring grounds. In retrospect, anyway. I think the first time I read this, I was still trying to figure Adolin out, and was more annoyed that he wasn’t being nicer to Kaladin.
In retrospect, as well, I have to point out that Adolin makes a couple of comments in this and Ch. 16 that really support the probability of a nascent spren bond. He senses something “off” – something different – about Kaladin, though he can’t quite figure out what it is. It might be that he’s just subconsciously noticing the things Kaladin does that he shouldn’t be able to do – extra strength, extra speed, extra skill, apparent lack of injury (which is sometimes just healing super-fast) – and to his soldier’s mind it adds up to “something off.” Or… it could be that his early-stage connection is recognizing Kaladin’s much-farther-along bond.
Sorry, daamn keyboard! When I saw the discription for Chouta I thought…pulled pork sandwiches! Kaladin is still letting his problems with Amaran color his relationships with everyone else…Some times I just want to slap the back of his head and shout,”WAKE UP!!”.
Typo:The first time I read this chapter I thought Zahel had done something to neutralize Kaladin’s Stormlight. It wasn’t until re-reading it that I caught that it was self-inflicted based on his attitude towards Adolin.
Also, in the Ars Arcanum section, don’t you mean Syl tries to point him in the right direction? Shallan isn’t there yet unless I’m really confused.
Off topic, but speaking of Shallan, Kaladin, and me being very confused, I was re-reading the rest of WOR last night and either my memory is completely failing (a distinct possibility) or I’m just missing something. Wasn’t there a point in the story where Kaladin is stunned by Shallan’s ability to still smile, even after all that has happened in her life to break her. Something like:
I’m sure I have the wording all wrong, but it’s along those lines. I remember finding it very moving the first time through, and now I can’t find it at all. It’s got to be after they survive the Highstorm in the chasms of the Shattered Plains, but I’ve re-read every section from that point with Kaladin twice now and don’t see it. Have I gone crazy (well, more crazy) and there is no such moment? Or is it just earlier in the story than I think?
Wet, I so agree about the “Bridgeboy”, I’m highly allergic to it, especially when Adolin continues using it after Kaladin safes him…
Aside from what’s been said, 3 quotes stood out to me:
“I’ll guard Dalinar tonight myself” Kaladin tells Lopen, learing there is another highstrom this night with the possibility of new marks on the wall.
— What happened with Kaladin’s Highstorm experiences, why did they end? Did we ever discuss this?
“[Adolin] is the son of the most powerful human on this-” Zahel speaking.
— Now knowing who Zahel is, I have a strong feeling, that Zahel would have said “this planet” had he completed his sentence and I wonder why. It’s likely that he knows Dalinar himself is a nascent Radiant, but why most powerful? Is Dalinar by bonding the Stormfather-spren the most powerful human?
— any other suggestions as of what could come after “this …”
It’s Zahel speaking, it must mean something, right?
“in that moment, the strength drained from him. The tempest inside of him fled without warning.” when Kaladin fights Adolin.
Carl covered this, and accepted Syl’s explanation that he lost the stormlight because he didn’t fight for the right cause, and it’s likely true, because later he’ll have trouble accessing stormlight frequently before Syl leaves him, but I can’t help to now, on my re-read see the similarity of Kaladin’s words to how the larkin works on Lift.
And how could the Radiants even betray the spren, if they lose their abilities when not acting according to standards, so to speak?
Nick31 @9:
I’d guess the quote you’re looking for happens in the chasm during the Highstorm, when they are trapped togehter and share some of their past, I’ll go look it up…
… yes, I guess, that’s it, chapter 74, Striding the Storm:
@9: “She smiled anyways.”
Which is where @11 says. Once my Kindle is re-charged I’ll look for the fuller section. It is one of my all-time favorite. It just summarizes the people who have been abused, but rather than become bitter, blaming, or an abuser themselves – rise above it and become stronger for it. They are able to see the good in life and not allow the bad to dominate their life.
Well, that’s how I see it. I’m not a victim of abuse, but past victims are in my family and friend circles.
I actually made con ribbons that said “Smile Anyways” for JordanCon. Gave them out and had fun. And yes, I totally asked for permission from Peter first.
I remember Kal losing his light from Wetlandernw’s Spoiler review. I believe she said “Son, that was a warning.” Sadly he didn’t learn that very well.
Thanks Carl for pointing out the Wile E. Coyote moment. Read that section several times and it didn’t click, but now that’s what I’m going to see.
Why does Kaladin have such an issue with pita bread? Seems like if they have pita bread, they should already be familiar with filling it with yummy stuff.
Brandon has said they have animals that produce dairy. Has anyone had goat or pig milk butter? Maybe Roshar doesn’t have a garlic equal, thus they haven’t discovered the joys of warm melted garlic butter over their seafood. Yummy…
Thanks for making the pregnant woman have a craving I won’t be able to satisfy for several days. Even then, it won’t come close to the goodness I had while in Boston last April.
What happened to 4&5?
@9:
Ok, it’s a different quote then, with Braid_Tug giving the correct wording I found it: Chapter 71, Vigil:
Braid @13: I saw 5, which was an empty comment by
snaggletoothedwoman, hence her Sorry in comment 7.
Sulky, idiotic, mopey, depowered dumbass Kal is tolerable only for the awesomeness of his redemption.
Chouta sounds delishious but I’ll take mine non-soulcast please. I pictured it like Chinese steamed buns.
I love the ways that Zahel uses to train Renarin in shardplate. I wonder if that is standard practice or if Zahal is unique in his training techniques.
This chapter does give us a hint that Renarin is made of pretty tough stuff. He just threw himself off it full speed. I probably would have wanted to start with stepping off.
People are being a bit harsh on Kaladin. We can disapprove of his actions and attitudes while still understanding the experiences that have fueled them. We can’t be completely sure that we wouldn’t have the same biases and inclinations in that situation. This is a difficult kind of personal growth that’s being demanded from him. From what we see in WoR, Kaladin is growing, but it’s frustratingly slow at times.
He doesn’t have all the information we have about Renarin, or other lighteyes. He hasn’t seen the same candid moments with Adolin that we have. Most people wouldn’t survive what Kaladin has been through, let alone find their resolve to continue on and protect others. But Kaladin’s on the way to being a heroic character, so we have higher standards for him. This is where our superior knowledge as readers works against Kaladin. For a man who can only rely on his own PoV, he’s doing pretty well.
It all comes back to this for me: it takes a lot of people, real and fictional, a long time to learn to treat others as individuals instead of painting them with attributes borrowed from stereotypes. I see a lot of adults each day who haven’t learned that lesson.
@10 travyl
Who decides which cause is right? Kaladin’s subconscious, or Syl’s? Some combination of the two, perhaps. Sanderson often speaks about how important perception is in his universe, so I’m inclined to think that this is really about a conflict deep within Kaladin. It’s probably doesn’t bubble up into his consciousness very often.
If perception is involved, the Radiants may have so completely believed in the need for their actions that their abilities were not lost.
When you step back and think about it, surgebinding is an odd magic system. It has a built-in ethical compass, but that compass’s north varies with the goals and ideals of the order a person belongs to. None of Sanderson’s other systems work this way. They were morally-neutral tools that could be used by anyone who had the ability to wield them. Nohadon’s words in WoK and the chapter epigraphs from WoR suggest that the original state of surgebinding was more like this, but the local conditions on Roshar demanded that the moral framework be imposed on top of it.
Re chouta,
I saw it as indian type curry wrapped in Naan bread (much thicker than pita bread and so not usually stuffed). Sounds very yummy and now I have a craving for indian food!!
Hey Brandon fan
atics! I had a random question. I don’t know if this is the best place for it, but I figured somebody could probably point me in the right direction. I’m going to a signing/ Q&A in idaho falls the saturday after thanksgiving, and I wanted to ask how many years were between the shattering of Adonalsium and the breaking of the oathpact in the WoK prelude. Do you guys know if anyone has asked that already? I’ve looked at some of the current cosmere chronology and it is pretty spotty.@19: I see a big red RAFO in your future. That just strikes me as the type of question we won’t get answered until the end of the Stormlight books, IF then.
Another thought about chouta: it probably wouldn’t taste like our teriyaki or BBQ pulled pork because those are sweet and would make it women’s food. Is there a non-BBQ sauced version of pulled pork that I don’t know about?
19. leiftinspace
One thing I would love to know (if you get the time to ask) is if there is a astronomical reason for the high storms, such as a moon. I was thinking of making a Storm Warden’s manual, and wanted to know if I should treat them like tides.
I imagine the consistancy of chouta as a thick, meaty version of gumbo, more spicy than sweet.
Carl
I didn’t grok that Kaladin was being intentionally cruel to Renarin until you mentioned it. Perhaps. He’s just going through a “phase” and will (have to) grow out of it. I am often frustrated with Kal also, we expect much of our heroes.
Zahel is clearly “not from around here” (as they say in my neck of the woods).
Wetlandernw @6
It wouldn’t surprise me if
channelersradiants/proto-radiants can sense others with the same abiltities. Do we have any Shallan/Kaladin examples later in the book? I don’t recall. OTOH, Dalinar also believes something is different about Kal, so maybe it’s just his demeanor or intensity in play.Halien @17
Nice analyses on a couple of topics.
@19 & 20
A shiny, red RAFO card isn’t a horrible outcome. You might want to ask BWS to sign it if you do get one.
ETA
Bellaberry @21: Yes (just rub, no BBQ sauce).
ZenBossanova @22: Yes (thick gumbo in a pita pocket or nan).
@12, @14 – Thank you! It did happen earlier than I thought.
Interesting that Kaladin saw that in Shallan even before she told him
her (slightly revised) life story. I had read Chapter 79 three or four
times last night and was beginning to wonder if I had just made it up.
But, since I know I’m not anywhere near creative enough to have made up
something that good, that seemed unlikely. So I figured I’d just ask. Thank you again!
Nick31 @9 – “Then she smiled. Oh, storms. She smiled anyway.” – It made me cry the first time I read it, and I tear up again every time I read it. Sometimes just thinking about it.
travyl @10 – I don’t recall that Kaladin had regular highstorm experiences, did he? There was the one when he was out in the storm and there are a couple later in this book, where he has dreams that are very close to visions (or maybe it’s the other way around), but it wasn’t regular with every highstorm like Dalinar’s, IIRC.
Re: lost Stormlight and betrayal… those are good questions. I don’t know the answers
, though I’ll take some guesses. The first problem is that we don’t know quite what regulates the access to Stormlight. Does the spren control it? Does the bond control it? Does the Stormfather have some control? Does the Stormlight itself have control? Do the Surges control it? Without knowing what that complex relationship is, everything else is just a guess. I was going to make a guess or two, but then I realized that I just don’t know enough about the Recreance to even suggest an answer. *sigh*Braid_Tug @12 – Did I really say that? ::goes and looks it up:: Well, I guess I did. Must have been one of my better days. Go me! ;) The content of that post is all rather blurry in my brain (there was a lot going on right then) but it did have a few good bits in the end, didn’t it? Thank God for Peter Ahlstrom, who helped me sort that mess out – three or four times, in fact.
Halien @17 – Yep. I can be hard on people even when I understand why they do what they do. I do it in real life, too… :D Honestly, I love it when an author can make me mad at a character – as opposed to being mad at the author for making a character be so dumb/annoying/arrogant/whatever. If I’m mad at the character, it means the author did a good job of making him believable, and Kaladin here is eminently believable. He’s also extremely annoying in his believability! The way it should be.
leiftinspace @19 – I haven’t heard of anyone asking that question, but I haven’t heard it all. I’d go ahead and ask it, maybe phrased as “can you give me a rough idea?” He might not want to let that out, but if it’s not a big Thing in the grand scheme, he might give you at least an order of magnitude of years or centuries.
Bellaberry @21 – On the other hand, the chouta is Herdazian food, and I don’t think they have the same strictures about men’s and women’s food, do they? They don’t follow Vorinism, so it can be sweet if they want it to. OTOH, when Kaladin tries it later, he doesn’t think about it being sweet, so… maybe not.
@22 ZenBossaNova. Thanks for the gumbo suggestion. I make it frequently and will now try it on pita bread or in a aoft taco shell instead of over rice which is how I usually eat it.
I took my gumbo to a church party once and it was a big hit. One guy comes up to me and asks me if I made it. I reply in the affirmative and ask him if he likes it. He says he does, and I ask him if he ate it over rice, which I had also brought, and he says in hushed conspiratorial tones “no, I mainlined it.”
@21
Pulled pork is not sweet. Pulled pork originated and was made popular in the Carolinas where it has an Apple Cider vinegar sauce (myth claims that this sauce originates with Thomas Jefferson).
Sweet pulled pork is about as authentic as McRib.
Ways @23. IMO, Dalinar felt that there was something different about Kaladin because Bridge Four believed that Kaladin would come out of the chasm. There should have been no reason for anybody to survive such a fall. At first, Dalinar thought it was something that all Bridge Four hoped would happen. In looking back, he realized that the other members of Bridge Four acted as if he was on a normal scouting mission and would return. Similarly, Bridge Four had no surprise that Kaladin survived his first encouter with Szeth.
Dalinar came to realize that there was more to Stormblessed than luck. Dalinar believed that he had to reform the Radiants and gather them. From his visions, Dalinar knew that Radiants were different (if not exactly how). This is why Dalinar asked Kaladin if Kaladin was the person for whom Dalinar was looking.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewB
(aka the musespren)
” is the son of the most powerful human on this-”
Dalinar is politically powerful because he is the power behind the throne for Alethkar.
Chouta sounds like crêpes.
@17 “Nohadon’s words in WoK and the chapter epigraphs from WoR suggest that the original state of surgebinding was more like this, but the local conditions on Roshar demanded that the moral framework be imposed on top of it.”
I think this is also supported by the way Szeth doesn’t have to follow the ideals of an honorspren, because of his Blade. Using the Honorblades give direct access to surgebinding, as it were, and going through a spren filters you through their peculiar demands.
Honestly, I’m not a fan of “in order to keep your magic you have to remain a perfectly pure individual”, especially since Kaladin’s whole paradigm of protecting the weak and helpless etc etc is so centered on his point of view. It’s possible that his paradigm is wrong, and he’ll be confronted with the fact that killing Parshendi/other soldiers/whatever is the opposite of protecting and his father is actually right. He’s had conversations with Syl about that very thing, so I would expect the idea to come back.
It isn’t so much that Kaladin has to remain pure, as it is, he has to act in a way that isn’t contrary to his particular spren. So, he should be able to go out and live a life of sin and vice, but at long has he is living his oath, he and Syl can still work together.
Pulled pork: Well now I’ve learned something. I live in the Pacific Northwest and I don’t think I’ve ever seen pulled pork that wasn’t slathered with BBQ sauce. Maybe it’s a regional thing. Although, please, don’t compare our sweet pulled pork to the McRib that’s just gross, and that is coming from someone who likes McDonald’s food.
AndrewHB @28
Yes, I agree. But, IIRC, Dalinar mentioned “something different” about Kal several times before the chasm escapade and Kal’s first encounter with Szeth.
@25 Wetlander
Reading WoK I had the impression, that the vision happend quite regularly once he’d recovered from being out in the Highstorm. I actually looked forward to, how Kaladin would explain his absence in WoR and then it didn’t happen… I admit it might have not been so, I didn’t go check WoK.
@29 Birgit:
Agreed about Dalinar being the power behind the throne, but:
“… this Shattered Plains” or “… this Alethkar” doesn’t sound correct to me. “this kingdom” would work, but Dalinar is so much struggling right now to keep Alethkar united, that it doesn’t sound right either.
– Not coming from our cosmere-aware Zahel anyway :)
@35 – with the way English pronouns work colloquially – the “on” would be a very important clue as well – a native English speaker (and yes, I understand the figurative/literary aspect of “translation” from Alethi, but I have to go with the fact that BWS is composing this in English, blah blah blah) would never say “on this kingdom” – it would be “in this kingdom.”
Some things that could work from an English usage with the word “on + this” are “on this planet,” “on this continent,” “on this side of the world,” “on this storming craphole of an extended military campaign,” etc
Last example aside, I’m in the camp that says he was going to say something like “planet”.
ETA: I have a hard time remembering who on this re-read (and other places) are not native English speakers – you all just write too darn well in English :). I hope the above did not come out condescendingly at all. If so, apologize all around and your favorite hot beverage of choice is in the Storm Cellar (as it is frigid out there today where I am at least)
your yaoi at the end…I THOUGHT IT WOULD NEVER COME TO THIS! I THOUGHT THE COSMERE WAS SAFE FROM THESE FANFICS! AHHHHHH!!!!
I did interpret it as on this planet/world. Alethkar seems to be a powerful kingdom, it might at least be the most powerful military power on the planet, even if we don’t know much about the other kingdoms.
sillyslovene @36
Re: “…you all just write too darn well in English.”
Indeed they do, better than many (if not most) native English speakers. Props!
I don’t fault Kaladin for his attitude towards Renarin’s shards. He correctly views Dalinar’s surrender of his plate as representing a greater challenge in providing protection to his mentor. He also views Renarin as being incapable of using the shards as a powerful weapon in war. What he doesn’t appreciate at this point is the role of Dalinar as protector as well as leader. Kaladin still tends to view his protector mission as unique, or not something that Lighteyes could perform. Zahel is corect to severely admonish Adolin for using his plate-enhanced strength to toss a stormlight deprived Kaladin high in the air in their scuffle. He may have deserved his sudden loss of stormlight when he attacked Adolin, he did not deserve to be tossed like a rag. The point is not to present the protagonists as stereotypical superheroes, but as fallible characters. The narrative arc would then involve their learning to improve their behavior or attitudes. Kaladin will learn that Shallan is not someone fit to disdain, but to admire. The same, to a lesser extent, will be his later attitude towards Adolin. Shallan will learn to become self-confident – not just to play a part. She will also learn to undo the harm associated with suppressing a particularly painful and destructive episode from her past. These characters will grow into their destined role even if that growth has fits and starts.
@13 Braid_Tug, that was my fault, keyboard stuck, swearing insued, posts were deleted. As for sweet pulled pork…no,no,no! warm, spicey rub, smoked over a pecan fire, with a apple cider vinegar and fresh lemon sop mop. yum. I too was very curious about the way Zahel, left that sentence dangling. He uses many different sayings that confound everyone he speaks to, it really did make it obvious he was from elsewhere…
Re: Zahel – I, too, thought it was immediately obvious that he was not native to this society. My first assumption, though, was that he was a Herald, using figures of speech from earlier/other times and places. (I’m still not entirely convinced that he’s not Ishar, but there’s certainly no solid proof of it.) In any case, the more you read of him, the clearer his Nalthis heritage becomes – all those colorful metaphors, you know. (I’ll also confess that I didn’t even catch it the first time through; I had to have it pointed out by other people who are more in the habit of thinking Cosmerologically.) (Ummm… is that a word? You know what I mean.)
@Wet- I didn’t figure out WHO Zahel was at first, but I pretty quickly figured out he was an off-worlder. Once Nightblood makes an appearance, however, it became obvious in hindsight who Zahel was. I’d been on the lookout for off-worlders ever since the 3 worldhoppers in the WOK purelake interlude, because while worldhoppers (other than Hoid, who appears in every BWS Cosmere book) may appear in other Cosmere works, they were much more blatant in WOK with the appearance of “Grump, Blunt, and Thinker”.
I know this will be a controversial statement, but…
There is no one right way to do barbecue
eh, i disagree that Kaladin was particularly wrong here(at least before refusing to accept he lost the sparring match.). yes he is a dick about it when he comments on renarin. but the crucial thing to note, is that he’s completely right. Giving Renarin plate and blade IS a complete waste of shards. from what i can recall, Renarin would only accomplish one actual thing with either, and thats cutting open the rock wall at the end of the book, but thats somethign shallan could have done if she wasnt as big a coward on the subject as kaladin is.
also, if dalinar had given it to one of his actual soldiers, said soldier might actually have kept a cool head and gotten armored up before jumping into the duel ring, which would probably have gone a lot better.
Dalinar IS nepotistic when it comes to his own sons, Its just that most people are willing to ignore it, because we like Adolin and Renarin(also Adolin is competent on the soldier stuff Dalinar assigns him). but, as we learn in stormbringer, giving the shards to renarin, is Dalinar attempting to “Fix” the flaws of his son, by making it so that he CAN now be a soldier, the thing Dalinar always dreamed his sons would be, the fact that renarin couldnt become one is why he completely dismissed the boy for most of his Life. The Invalid as he called him. in his mind, Renarin either has to be a soldier, or an ardent/scholar, and since the boy doesnt seem to want to be a priest, or a scholar, he MUST become a soldier.
Mind you Kaladin doesnt know any of this, so its not unfair to say he’s a dick about it. but he isnt wrong about any of his thoughts about how dumb an idea it was to give the plate to Renarin, a man who isnt going to achieve anything with it, and would have been able to both keep a much more competent soldier alive as well as letting him achieve much more, something Dalinars Faction Desperatly needs now.
Also, any symphaty i might have had for Adolin Standing up for his Brother, dissapeared when he did something which could easily have gotten his sparring partner killed, then arguing that no, it wasnt wrong to do so. thats something that almost ended in Negligent Homocide. as readers we are inclined to shrug it off, because it happened to Kaladin, who can heal, but fact is, that had this happened to anyone else, or had kaladin been thrown the wrong way and hit something head first. it could easily have ended in death. Adolin is a complete an utter dick in this chapter. it takes something to almost kill a man in sparring due to you doing something you know you shouldnt do, then argue that no, it wasnt wrong.
I like Adolin, but quite frankly in this chapter he is everything Kaladin acuses him of being. a spoiled lighteyed brat, who looks at others as being beneath him, not bound by the same rules, their lives not worth anything compared to his convinience. he will get better though, but he still is a massive ungratefull dick during the early parts of this book.